While I appreciate innovation, I can’t appreciate this. I don’t see the point at all, other than to look different. This whole project reeks of impracticality, both from the prospect of taking a purpose-built machine and repurposing it into another machine similar to, but far inferior to, a vehicle that is already mass-produced by multiple brands for the intended use. I can only begin to list here all of the ways this is simply a huge step backwards and impractical.
Steering lock travel is probably less than half of what you would want to have in any circumstance off road, whether simply turning around or in a highspeed powerslide.
Install suspension that quite obviously has more travel than the low-hanging exhaust does ground clearance(not on pavement – on dirt or soft ground, where the tires are sunk in 2+ inches or more on a landing, even on flat and level soil). so it is mashed flat when actually used?
In the ergonomics department, having the seat angled like it is and kicked up at the back like it is precludes most, if not all, maneuvers a real rider needs to perform offroad. Ditto for the in-your-crotch tank(why go through *that* much trouble to modify a tank that is entirely the wrong shape, when you can just build one like you did the panniers in nearly any shape you want?).
You simply can’t put 140+ horsepower to the ground offroad, through any tire. Torque characteristics for this engine are totally undesireable in any sort of situation besides – and this is a long shot given that the geometry of this bike would likely be deadly at any velocity here – at the sand dunes or on the beach. Not to mention that it isn’t exactly “tractable” horsepower…those motors rev so fast that managing wheelspin in a slide on something like this would only be possible by the best rider, if at all. Gear ratios are for the street, and close together at that – all wrong again.
Not to mention the shoddy fabrication…I just don’t get it.
This is not an “adventure” motorcycle, this is an abstract artform. If you want to appreciate it for art, then admit that that’s why you like it – not because it will do anything better than anything else out there. This bike is no different than all of the “custom” cruisers out there built to look different with no practical function: the ones(majority) that don’t hold enough gas to get across town, that have chrome handgrips that are too hot or cold to touch unless the weather is perfect, that are so long and raked out that they can’t turn around in a parking lot(or fit in a parking space), that are deafeningly loud to ride for any difference.
“Hot Rods” in the original sense, motorcycle or automotive, were built because there wasn’t anything else available to do what they wanted to do – in that case, accelerate in a straight line, for the most part. The look and “style” came from neccessity, and in most cases wasn’t deliberate.
Listen to the video: “…it does 130mph and still has a lot left!” And the original FZ1 didn’t do that in the first place? “…you’d likely take this anywhere you’d take V-Strom or similar…” Well, then, why don’ t you buy a V-strom and splash some mud on that and call it an “Adventure” motorcycle too? A DL1000 will get muddy for the pictures, fit knobby tires, and do ~140+ , too, and without having Woody’s build a wheel, TrailTricks do suspension work, or him spending hours and hours of toil adapting KTM swingarms to the FZ frame with questionable techniques and “eyeball-is-good-enough” alignment philosophies, cobbling rear brake master cylinder brackets on to the FZ frame to fit the KTM rear brake stock master cylinder…etc.
Need I mention more? The “custom” front brake lines cannot cycle with the 8+ inches of front fork travel at all, so they will bind and kink(especially the RH one), most likely kinking into the front wheel and dragging the side knobs of the tire…if you look closer, if the forks were to actually bottom, the front tire would very likely drag the leading face of the radiator, too…furthermore, why bother with a “protective” hoop around the headlights if the headlights stick out in front of the hoop and are left vulnerable to brush and strikes anyway? I can’t see the rear upper shock mount very well, but I shudder to imagine how ill-designed it is, or how bad the welds are, base don what I see elsewhere on the bike…
Real, functional “adventure” motorcycles are by nature functional and the style is the outcome of that priority. Function is the priority first, not fashion, and they are designed, proportioned and tuned in many specific ways to meet the demands of the real users, whether or not the remainder of the owners actually end up using them that way.
I’d like to hear what your ideal adventure bike is because, I’ve owned and ridden them all. None of them will touch this bike on the road. Yeah the superenduro wins offroad, but I’m not hitting 50′ triples either. I’m a porky 33 yo dad just having some fun. I don’t recall you winning the baja on your first attempt either.
The lines do cycle but I need to redo the guides as I was rushed before my trip. I’m sure if you read the build log you could appreciate the time constraints I had. I was, and continue to be, critical of the bike and constantly try and rework components to make it better. But to dismiss it out of hand and compare it functionally to some occ copper, especially without riding it (btw invitation always there) just smacks of a superiority complex that I just can’t help you with. Maybe break the pills in half?
I can afford to buy any bike I want. I choose to build this because I wanted too. I listened and learned to those more experienced than I on what to do and did it. The next one will be even more stupid and impractical, can’t wait for your comments on that one.
I think he is trying to achieve a certain feel and maintain a level of function. Namely he likes the feel of a sport bike style engine, and NONE of the adventure bikes have that. Everything he put on there was for a purpose rather than style. Oh-No! he can’t use all his power the 15% of the time he is on the dirt! He can only enjoy that smooth power delivery the other 85% of his riding. What a waste….
As to build quality, he is clearly obsessive and learning. He will definitely clean up every thing that is iffy. I saw some ugly welds, but nothing that would fall off. He already mentioned that he was going to redo the tripples and add a skidplate. That should cover him for the rare times when he might bottom out the front.
You can tell it works, because he is using it. Anything that doesn’t work will get broken and replaced. I think he has earned credibility because he cared enough to build it and he is riding it how he wants to use it. How many BMW GS owners ever see dirt?
Well let me say thanks for posting up my bike. It was my first bike project, and I learned quite a bit during the build.
In regards to hilslamers comments, many are valid points. Some are off the mark, maybe more bran in your diet?
I built the bike just because. It’s not an offroad bike, lets be clear.more of a v-strom type machine. I took the bags off and installed tkc s specifically
for that ride. Most of the time it has bags and lives on the street. Hilslamer, I know you are familiar with the ktm 950, this bike absolutely murders that bike in 90% of the situations *I* ride the bike in. I had an 04 go. The roll on power is simply stunning, top end is frightening.
Off road the 950 wins due to gearing, traction, and torque. But only at low speeds. After 40, see ya. The suspension revalve transforms the wp stuff. Javier did a great job.
You are right about the seat angle, that was a miscalculation and I regret it.
Let me be clear again, I’m not racing in the baja 1000 or dakar, I wanted a stupid fast adventure bike that could handle light offroading with ease, rail through twisties with ease, and beat up on sport bikes while hauling camping gear. Oh and stone ax reliable motor with about the easiest maintenance I have ever done. My 950 was ridiculous in terms of oil changes, valve adjustments etc. the day I finished it, I rode 2000 miles round trip to the adv eastern rendezvous and it has performed flawlessly in the time since then.
With regards to the shoddy fabrication, yes there were some mistakes made. I built it in a one car garage with modest tools as a first time endeavor. This winter I plan on redoing a few things and finishing the bike as well as powdetcoating the frame etc. I don’t pretend to be a master builder, just a guy that enjoys to play around. For a first effort I think it was a great success. Those that have ridden it all universally get off and remark something similar to “that’s ridiculous…”
Bring your adventure bike and your pink slip over and we’ ll line em up…
It seems the truth comes out, once the flaws are called out: “Most of the time it has bags and lives on the street….this bike absolutely murders that bike in 90% of the situations *I* ride the bike in.” Seems like showing it around the web, unfinished(where is the rear brake lever/master cylinder in the muddy pictures?), coated in mud and shod with tires you ran on it once is a little bit of false advertising to me, if that’s really the case.
I guess if you wanted to beat an LC8-based adventure bike on the street, you’ve done it. Or did Yamaha already do it for you? Anyone could have gone out and bought an FZ1, shod it in Twinduro rubber, drop the final drive gearing 10%, and probably still done the same with a lot less hassle, and still be able to get it most of the places you would be willing to take your creation in an offroad sense. Something along the lines of this:
At the same time, an Adventure with SuperDuke cams, correct injection mapping, 2-into-1 exhaust(looking at about ~125-130 hp that way), 19/17″ wheels and ~16/45 gearing would probably satisfy most of your “90% street” needs and still be a whole lot more capable(by, oh, say, orders of magnitude…) as an adventure bike(offroad). As far as maintenance intervals go, if you run an FZ1 as hard as you purport to, valve adjustment intervals are a lot more likely to be less than the ~26k miles Yamaha suggests. That number is only double what KTM suggests for the LC8 engines, and most know that even then that is incredibly conservative – they will easily go double that How is an oilchange going to be any different than a 950 or V-Strom when you get an adequate skidplate on your creation? I suppose if you really do ride your creation 90% on the street, then the pod-style airfilters aren’t too much trouble…but used in reality, or for any sort of mileage in places you’d take an Adventure or SuperEnduro, you’d have to wash/change those quite often. When you need a new set of sprockets, do you have to call SprocketSpecialists back every time and explain your application and situation? How much do they charge you for a custom sprocket each time? I bet they wear out fast, too, even with 90% of your ride-time on the street – 140hp and 130+mph tend to do that to final drive components.
As an afterthought, it seems like it might have been a lot easier, if you really insisted on FZ1 power and close-ratio gearing and “reliability”(as if the LC8’s lack that?), that it would have been a lot less work to graft the FZ1 engine into and Adventure or SuperEnduro chassis.
I didn’t see a defense of your headlight ring/protection – but if you spend 90% of your time on the street as you say, and it doesn’t do much anyway as I pointed out before, it’s really only an artful additional accessory to mimic the “look” or “style” of the real, functional thing.
I’ll race for pinks if I get to choose any 50% the route(agree to omit singletrack, since you stated that it was not a “singletracker” – I’d be game for some, though)…but even then, it seems like neither of us would want the prize either. To each his own, I suppose.
I never tried to post the pics that this bike is the ultimate off roader. I just ran into some mud last weekend and thought it was funny. I guess that humor was lost. I’m damn proud of the bike for my first attempt despite your criticisms, which I take sincerely. I’m sure you are a better rider, richer, more handsome, your kids are smarter etc.
If you read my build without prejudice you’d see that I constantly was trying to just have fun and enjoy the bike and build. I don’t puff my chest out as the greatest builder or rider. Like I said 33 yo fat dude.
The brake pedal broke off when I smacked into a tree so I put it in my pocket for the rest of the ride. Sprocket specialists charged about $90 if I recall. It has about 7 k miles on it and wearing fine.
Again, since reading comprehension seems hard, I built the bike for 90/10 riding. It has warts, and I’m completely honest about admitting them. Read the blog if you can stoop that low. I’m sure your time is limited dating cameron diaz and flying your kids to astronaut school in your helicopter, but comments always welcome.
Oh and the lights. My buddy owns a metal business and he gave me some 1″ aluminum. My bending die just so happened to be the perfect radius. I bent it upand presto. It works great an d is plenty beefy when in need of my buddies to help me pull my over powered, over suspended, under built, obviously shoddily crafted piece of crap bike unworthy of even a passing compliment poseur bike from the mud. Which I’m sure never happens to you having a helicopter and all.
Wow again Hilslamer!! Any chance of seeing one of your builds that you have crafted by hand? BTW, you are probably spot on in some of your observations but you have totally missed the point. He just built it for fun. Also, I never met the builder but I will defend anybody who is enjoying the world of motorcycles. I like the world of “Why?” when it is answered with “Why not?”.
Stuff that ego into a helmet and bring your Superduke’d 950 over to Pittsburgh and we’ll see what’s what. You did build it right? Having owned a properly jetted 950 for years, it ain’t even in the same league. Anyone with a CC can go out and buy a SE and farkle it up. Hell, I can buy Ned’s Dakar bike, does that make me more baddass? Let’s see your bike…
Since you won’t touch my piece of junk, I’ll have to treat you to a steak dinner with a side of raisin bran. You can regale me with stories about why you didn’t win the Baja 1000 on your SE, because having twice the cylinders and twice the HP of the JCR teams means you were obviously at a disadvantage over those pussy 450s.
Kudos to you for racing in it, too bad you’re such a DB for me to care. Guess I’ll have to take my Team Double Barrel racing T shirt and use it to wipe the mud off my pipe.
I’m not rich. I don’t own and have never flown in a helicopter. I don’t choose to have any kids yet, because then I could never do what I do with my spare time on motorcycles in good conscience. As to Cameron Diaz, well, maybe if I DID have a helicopter I could fly over to her place to get refused for a date…LOL
I don’t have a superiority complex, I have a penchant for practicality. And with a finite amount of money and time, “building” a bike from numerous pieces of other ones is pretty low on my priority list when there are already a huge number of options out there that meet all of my needs quite nicely – so building one with some sort of parameter that very few people want or need(to blow away sportbikes on the way to an adventure motorcycling meet?) doesn’t seem very practical to me. But as I said in the end of my comments, to each his own.
Well I guess I won’t be seeing that cammed 950 rolling through the Burgh any time soon.
You still haven’t named the bike, with the “huge” number of available bikes out there. Like I said, I’ve owned most of them. A GS? 950? Tiger? Strom? Strada?
Yeah, crazy as it seems, having a 90/10 bike that will strafe twisties and rip down fire roads on the way to meet up with fellow riders at a rally can actually be a load of fun.
Use your (re)search skills to find my bike(s) – they appear to be pretty good.
There’s a reason that there isn’t anyone mass-producing a bike like yours, and that’s because the sum of it’s parts(regardless of source) and configuration doesn’t have a practical scope or a useful purpose beyond the elementary novelty you’ve proven it to have here. If there were any demand for anything like that at all, I have no doubt that it would be met at least in small numbers by someone like you building small runs of them – you did say you could afford any bike you wanted, right?…but alas, yours is and probably only ever will be the only thing of it’s kind…it’s like building a really, really fast street-legal dragster, but sans all of the things that make it fit into a class in competition(even “unlimited”), and then having no place to race it and no one interested in buying it. It is cool to me that you are willing to get out and use it, don’t get me wrong there!
I suppose I should explain a little bit about the “huge” number of bikes I claimed were already available: there aren’t any that will do what you purport to do on the pavement. I don’t know anyone else that wants to do that, AND have the ability to go down a fireroad at any similar velocities. Congratulations, you’ve built exactly what you want, and no on else would ever think to create because they all know better than to use something like that to a fraction of it;s potential offroad.
The closest think I know of is a TerraMostro, http://www.terramostro.com/index.cfm , and even then, they would only be about as fast on the street as an Adventure(waaay below your “needs”) and at the same time probably even inferior to your ride offroad. And at a $16.5k ding to the bank account, they appear to still be in business but you don’t see Ducati poaching the concept or rallies of TerraMostro’s with “other brands welcome, too,” either.
You likely only know part of the story behind the Baja effort of TDBR…I was one of four(three that actually raced) riders on TDBR, and if you “drop prejudices,” as a team we did pretty well for what we had to work with. We finished to beat over 50% of all entrants that year, just by finishing(huge attrition rate that year for both 2-wheel and 4-wheel vehicles – very, very rough course and difficult logistics for support). We were in the top third of all finishers. I delivered the bike hours ahead of schedule on my first leg, and on my second leg the next morning my lead on the chase vehicle actually cost us an hour and a half because I picked up a nail in a place where I was so far ahead of the chase crew they had taken a bypass route around a planned rendesvoux. That left them backtracking a long way, literally worst-case-scenario at that point. But, that’s racing, and I don’t make those as excuses other than to say that even if none of the other things below hadn’t happened, we still never aspired to “win” from a speed or ranking standpoint. To my knowledge, no one else has ever finished on an SE before or since. Although, real heavyweight multi-cylinder credit goes to Jimmy Lewis and his team for doing amazing things with the HP2’s they raced prior to us.
But the Baja Mil on that bike was never on our horizon when the team began. We originally procured a 950 because it would have been a big advantage with our team aboard at the BITD Vegas to Reno, but when Ned’s father took ill and passed just before the race, we had a publicity promise to keep to sponsors and the Baja Mil was the only next feasible date we could all meet. So we raced in it, but we all knew full well that winning against the field of paid professionals at that race on that bike was not even within the scope of the teams finances or abilities.
I learned a lot about really high speed on a motorcycle ON DIRT when I raced my 990 Adventure in the Prescott Forest Rally in 2009, in the RallyMoto class. While this was not a national level rally, some of the ~400-500hp, 4wd cars that showed up were SCCA pro level cars with drivers that were well ranked in them, and they are by no means slow. All of the specials were on smoothly graded fireroads, the kind I think that you might enjoy on your creation. The biggest problem for all of us, 1wd, 4wd, 2wd: traction. As it finished, my 990 and I beat all of the motorcycles(composed of a good variety of other singles, and LC8 twins – although no FZ-1 powered beasts) and was 2nd overall in the entire event. This was on my 2008 990 Adventure, stock – engine-wise – other than a 2-into-1 exhaust and the Akropovic map – all of maybe 100hp, probably ~85hp at the 3500-5000ft elevation the stages were at.
The unquestionable limit was traction, both in a straight line against wind and the gravel drag of the front wheel – if I had had a fresh rear tire at the beginning of every stage, I think I probably could have gone 2-4% faster in the specials, but that is totally unrealistic in that atmosphere without multiple chase crews and the like. As it was geared and set up, I have seen ~125mph on the GPS near sealevel on pavement, with the same gearing and knobbies on, but max speed on the gravel was ~112 due to tire slip on the straightest, flattest sections, even downhill a bit an tucked and WFO. Additionally, I spent a lot of time right at the steering lock drifting turn after turn – even with Emig tripleclamps(2mm more offset adds several degrees more steering lock) – to go that fast and I can’t imagine trying to flattrack turns with 140+hp on tap and half the steering lock travel as your bike has. I can imagine several of the cattleguard jumps and rougher sections of road smashing the exhaust flat and racking myself on the tank of your bike numerous times over those same roads, at the same speeds – even though I stand almost all the time to ride
This experience, among many others that are otherwise undocumented by timeclocks, is why I say that even for smooth gravel/graded fireroads, your bike simply does not seem practical to me at all – even with the suspension changes, custom panniers, etc. I mean, for straight-line bragging rights, and highly illegal speed on paved roads, maybe it suits you but for almost all of the other riding to be done in the world, Adventure, street, dirt, Baja, Dakar, trans-continental, whatever…and for anywhere on the pavement, you could go just as fast for a whole lot less effort by just buying and FZ1 and leaving it bone stock.
True to your word, though, you never mention “practicality” in the build…it’s too bad that Pike’s Peak is paved all the way to the top now, because it would have been really interesting to see you compete in whatever class they would allow it in to show how well it works. That’s the only place I can see something like your beast finding a home outside of yours, but now even that would be simply better suited to a stock FZ1.
I appreciate the effort and time you spent trying to refute what I’m not disputing. YOUR opinion of what YOU want does not jive with my opinion of what’s best for ME. Agreed? But trying to tell me from across the country, based on your limited knowledge of what you THINK i have, having never ridden it, is absurd. Come on over and ride it for the day, then tell me its a piece of crap, but don’t try peddling the idea that just because you have a preformulated opinion of what’s best that I’ll agree.
“I don’t know anyone else that wants to do that, AND have the ability to go down a fireroad at any similar velocities.” You need to get out more, really?
It’s not a novel concept for wanting a fast bike that can multitask, you just defined the entire adv market. Based on the response I have gotten from those that ACTUALLY rode it at the eastern rendezvous and locally all say it’s impressive. Their words not mine. I’ve ridden 7k miles since finishing it and I’m not easy on bikes.
Every ride it gets redlined. Repeatedly. The valves are the same as when I checked them when I pulled the motor originally. If I smoke the motor, I can pick up another with 10k on the clock for $500, there’s two 950 motors for $2k in the flea market. There’s more than one rider of the FZ boards with 150k on a stock motor, one girl getting ready to hit 200k. The oil takes 5 minutes to change with a sump drain and spin on filter. The 950 was an hour and that was skipping the tank filter screen. The 950 was a better off roader, I don’t dispute that. My bike is a better road bike, and that comes from someone who loved the 950. Again, compromises, biased to what I want.
I RIDE MOSTLY STREET WITH THIS BIKE. I’m not pretending that I’m whipping over cattle guards or running 120 in the dirt. I’m familiar with your efforts in the B1k, which is why I mentioned it. I was also in the pits for BMW the first year they ran the HP2 and again the next year when we pitted for DA and camerons crew. I wouldn’t make it 20 miles in that event.
You keep on the train of thought that this bike is pointless because no one wants to ride fast on the street and also go offroad. Are you kidding me? That’s the whole adv bike segment. The Multistrada, Tiger, Stroms, Versys, GS are a huge segment (relatively) and that’s exactly where this bikes slots in. It might be more street biased than the 950, but that’s exactly why I built it. I’ve ridden every one of those bikes and to a T they all have faults. Degrees of separation is what defines that market. The strom, tiger, GS are way too soft and heavy. fine for miles, but just plain boring. The Multi is about as close to my bike as I can imagine, but still different. My bike was built for a focused purpose, to be able to rip up the streets and head off road if I want. I had the forks and shock valved for that, and run a scotts damper road version. As I have said repeatedly, that’s what I want it for. I understand that might not be what you enjoy riding, so this bike isn’t for you I got it. Just because I chose KTM 950 suspension all the way around, doesn’t mean I wanted to try and copy that bike. I did is specifically because the WP48 is the only viable suspension available that can be tuned and sprung for a bike this heavy. Along with the wheels being available in the right sizes, it just made sense to run everything 950. And since the weight is so close, it was much easier to baseline to get the rake set, swingarm angles etc.
I want a motor that just screams when I am going for a long day of twisties. I also want to be able to shoot off on a back road and explore, maybe cross a stream, bang around dirt roads. The day that pic was taken (last week) was pretty much the day I found my limits with the bike and myself. The week previous, I was banging around trails with a bunch of new husabergs, 530s, DRZs, it was exhausting. I am pushing the boundaries of what I ever intended the bike to be.
The idea that there’s no market for a bike because the demand isn’t there is silly and you know it. The makers of bikes build what they can sell, period. The TerraMostro is a cool idea, but the money is absurd. I paid $1500 for the FZ1. The suspension started adding up quickly, and before I knew it I was around 6-7k as you see it. Of course you can buy a 950 used for that, but having owned one, this bike is more enjoyable to me. Simply because of the motor. It’s much more focused, but don’t think for a minute it isn’t versatile. I’ve done single track, fast fire roads, 500 mile days, twisties in WV where you think your head is getting beat in from so many corners, camping trips and just plain beer nights with buddies. It’s done it all, and done it well. It just ceases to be enjoyable when you push it on tight trails as throttle control becomes an issue. Those that have ridden with me will tell you, it’s surprising how well is does.
I bought a wrecked FZ1 so I didn’t want to throw the same forks back on it, the body work was trashed and one thing morphed into another. I love the suspension of the 950, the motor from the FZ1 is addictive, what’s not to like?
Apparently a lot I guess.
If you thought that bike was silly, I can’t wait to see what you think of my CBR600. Running 48’s with an EXC swingarm. I’m at 280 lbs with probably about 40-50 lbs not accounted for. Underseat aluminum tank, no body work, 105HP. 350 lbs. Oh, and full sumo setup too.
WOW! You guys have been busy today. Sorry I missed out on the conversation. I was hella busy today so I lost track of the comments here. Sailah sorry about your last comment . It got caught in the filter (probably from the link). As long as it’s civil there’s no censorship here.
I’ve skimmed the thread and at first blush it seems that Hillslammer is building one hell of a strawman argument here. You’re arguing against a bike concept that isn’t trying to please anyone other than it’s owner. This is clearly a very deliberately built machine and I think it’s fantastic. I’d ride it in a second, probably stop to piss myself, and then get right back on. I’m trying to visualize blasting down a gravel road with that kind of power coupled to somewhat manageable traction. It must be thrilling beyond words and certainly beyond almost any mass produced motorcycle out there.
You seem perplexed because it’s quite literally almost impossible to categorize and that seems to be important to you. No worries there. Live and let live. But god help us all when riders simply allow manufacturers to tell us what is a proper bike to ride in a particular circumstance. If we truly surrendered to that impulse we’d be without an awful lot of biking segments. Heck.. Goldwings would still big naked standards, cafe racers would have never happened, there likely wouldn’t have been choppers or cruisers or street trackers. Hell supermoto was “invented” when someone had a crazy idea to put 17″ slicks on a CR500 to see what would happen. Throughout time, the manufacturers have responded to the market almost as much as the other way around. I for one look forward a future filled with liter bike inline four 200 hp backroad blasters!! Heck put some ice spikes on that thing and head out to the lake this winter! there are no rules!
Open door policy with any of my bikes. Always welcome to ride it for yourself.
I watched the R1 video, mine is def not that angry. It can be if you want it to, but I think that’s more for showing off the pipe and spinning tires.
Funny you mention CR500 supermoto, I was building a YZ450 with a CR500 motor in it and then got sidetracked on this project. Haven’t actually finished the FZ1 as has been noted, but am in the build stages of another. CBR600 with sumo and dirt setup. Will be much different than the FZ1 in that I’m trying to minimize weight and get the bike under 350# which is almost crazy. I weighed it as you see it in the pic and was around 280ish with dirt wheels. Stock CBR600 is 390. I lost the steel swingarm, Li Ion battery, no bodywork, no steel tank, one rotor & caliper etc.
I’m still waiting on the dirt wheels to get here, but should be plenty interesting on slicks. I’ve never ridden a supermoto, but plan to take it to BeaveRun track to have some fun. Course living next to WV is like having 1000’s of supermoto tracks too.
I’m a ways off from finishing it, but learned a lot of lessons from the first bike build. That lower/outer engine cradle is getting redone and will be removeable…
Wow! (EDIT: Ad hominem remark removed by the site host) He is the exact kind of anal retentive narrow minded pinhead that once told the Wright brothers their idea would never work. (EDIT:political comment removed by the host) In fact I doubt if this asshole even has a bike. Being that he is such the expert. Anyway who gives a shit about practicality. This is a very cool build. I know plenty of very well known bike builders that would all love to take this thing for a spin just for fucks sake and the shit eating grin. Keep up the bad ass work. And don’t forget to up your medical insurance:-b And for (Edit: hillslamer). You should take some of the time you are dedicating to being so anal in your criticisms of someone else’s hard work. And go out and ride. Maybe you will find a reason to smile ( Edit:Deleted)
@Testdriver, I’m going to let that last one go but juuust barely and with some edits done by me. The basic point is still very clear. Let’s keep it civil here please. There’s PLENTY of room here for everyone’s opinions without getting personal and bringing up politics. This is positively NOT the place for that. If my edits offend you I will gladly remove your comment for you upon request. I’m VERY lenient to all points of view but this is not a democracy. I will not tolerate personal flaming, name calling and political attacks. Other than that it’s wide open and have at it.
There appears to be a strange upload issue with this page, because I see different comments and in in different order when I view it from the links the subscription send out, and from different computers and/or my Android phone. So, I’m not sure at this point what I have and haven’t missed because I was out of service/riding most of the weekend…
I’m not frowning on creativity here at all. Looking over what I *think* is all of the replies and comments, I should have saved us all a bunch of time and started from the top(the concept), instead of the bottom(most of the other details and considerations I have listed already). I henpecked the details and all it did is create a rash of percieved personal attacks, when that was never my intention. I take responsibility for that mistake in whole.
What I am trying to ask/say, is this: Did you ever take a “design of experiments” class? Or similar? You know, the one where you create a list of all possible combinations of a formula, or ways of meeting specific design criteria, and rule out the ones that clearly either can’t be combined, or defy logic to the extent that they aren’t worth investing the time or energy in? This project seemed to me, both at first glance and upon further investigation, to be a total outlier.
While it’s hard to be an “expert” on anything anymore because everything is so diverse, I’ve had a passion for motorcycling for most of my life and have made a personal study of every bit of literature, video, reading or other means related to motorcycling for the duration. And I’m still no expert…but I can say, that there are a lot of reasons this recipe has either never been tried before or rather, has never been documented before. Either it was and didn’t work, or everyone else had the sense to see that outliers aren’t worth proving wrong.
But, to each his own…only you knew the true design criteria when you started, and that makes it a lot easier to defend later on.
Hillslammer I went and looked around and I don’t see any posts relating to this thread that have been snagged or held up by any filters. It appears to all be in chronological order when I vew it here. Not sure what may have gone on with your platform. Please let me know it it continues. Thanks.
Steve D – it has to do with the links that the site sends me for updates, through my gmail account. I don’t think it’s a filter problem at all, it’s a refresh thing with the link the site sends to me, and the subsequent posts in the mean time. For instance, I used the link for the email it sent me when you replied “you guys have been busy!!!….” and could not see Sailah’s post above that – it only came when I reloaded the page by accident. As a result, some of my retorts did not take into account his later comments or expansions on a topic. It doesn’t really matter now, anyway, I will just watch for it in the future with threads/strings of comments like this. I’d have pissed him off and insulted him either way or in person for that matter, anyway…
That looks like they started with mostly XT600 components(entire chassis, then modified to “fit” the FZ motor/trans. Definitely offroad geometry and full range of steering lock from the single-backbone frame.
I did the same back in ’92 using a 5-valve Fazer as a starting point. That year I ran it at the Mini-Pine Enduro and earned an 8th place trophy. It was featured in the May 2011 Cycle Canada magazine.
By the way, I bought my crashed Fazer for CAD300.00 and paid another 300.00 for the stainless exhaust out back (just like you did). Everything else was stuff I had lying around my garage and adapted. It was a revelation how well it all worked and it would do the craziest wheelies at almost any speed. It was best on fast trails and fire-roads but it could and did handle single track and even shallow mud quite well.
Hey Manny don’t leave us hanging! You must have some old pictures of it around somewhere? I’d love to get it and get it posted on here. Any chance you can get some old shots scanned?
Steve, I told Manny to get in on this.Here’s hoping he gets to it !ps. His bike was not pampered and lived a hard life up until the time it died on the T-Can in front of Fairview shopping center and was left to die roadside……sigh, you just gotta know Manny.
Mike that cracks me up. I spent a good part of my youth at the Fairview mall. In it and on the trails behind it. Back when it was half the size it is today and with only a single floor.
Motorcycle Photo Of The Day 
While I appreciate innovation, I can’t appreciate this. I don’t see the point at all, other than to look different. This whole project reeks of impracticality, both from the prospect of taking a purpose-built machine and repurposing it into another machine similar to, but far inferior to, a vehicle that is already mass-produced by multiple brands for the intended use. I can only begin to list here all of the ways this is simply a huge step backwards and impractical.
Steering lock travel is probably less than half of what you would want to have in any circumstance off road, whether simply turning around or in a highspeed powerslide.
Install suspension that quite obviously has more travel than the low-hanging exhaust does ground clearance(not on pavement – on dirt or soft ground, where the tires are sunk in 2+ inches or more on a landing, even on flat and level soil). so it is mashed flat when actually used?
In the ergonomics department, having the seat angled like it is and kicked up at the back like it is precludes most, if not all, maneuvers a real rider needs to perform offroad. Ditto for the in-your-crotch tank(why go through *that* much trouble to modify a tank that is entirely the wrong shape, when you can just build one like you did the panniers in nearly any shape you want?).
You simply can’t put 140+ horsepower to the ground offroad, through any tire. Torque characteristics for this engine are totally undesireable in any sort of situation besides – and this is a long shot given that the geometry of this bike would likely be deadly at any velocity here – at the sand dunes or on the beach. Not to mention that it isn’t exactly “tractable” horsepower…those motors rev so fast that managing wheelspin in a slide on something like this would only be possible by the best rider, if at all. Gear ratios are for the street, and close together at that – all wrong again.
Not to mention the shoddy fabrication…I just don’t get it.
Geez Hilslamer!! Can’t anybody build something just for fun and enjoy it? I guess you don”t have any “hot rodding” spirit! Totally cool! — fan66ford
This is not an “adventure” motorcycle, this is an abstract artform. If you want to appreciate it for art, then admit that that’s why you like it – not because it will do anything better than anything else out there. This bike is no different than all of the “custom” cruisers out there built to look different with no practical function: the ones(majority) that don’t hold enough gas to get across town, that have chrome handgrips that are too hot or cold to touch unless the weather is perfect, that are so long and raked out that they can’t turn around in a parking lot(or fit in a parking space), that are deafeningly loud to ride for any difference.
“Hot Rods” in the original sense, motorcycle or automotive, were built because there wasn’t anything else available to do what they wanted to do – in that case, accelerate in a straight line, for the most part. The look and “style” came from neccessity, and in most cases wasn’t deliberate.
Listen to the video: “…it does 130mph and still has a lot left!” And the original FZ1 didn’t do that in the first place? “…you’d likely take this anywhere you’d take V-Strom or similar…” Well, then, why don’ t you buy a V-strom and splash some mud on that and call it an “Adventure” motorcycle too? A DL1000 will get muddy for the pictures, fit knobby tires, and do ~140+ , too, and without having Woody’s build a wheel, TrailTricks do suspension work, or him spending hours and hours of toil adapting KTM swingarms to the FZ frame with questionable techniques and “eyeball-is-good-enough” alignment philosophies, cobbling rear brake master cylinder brackets on to the FZ frame to fit the KTM rear brake stock master cylinder…etc.
Need I mention more? The “custom” front brake lines cannot cycle with the 8+ inches of front fork travel at all, so they will bind and kink(especially the RH one), most likely kinking into the front wheel and dragging the side knobs of the tire…if you look closer, if the forks were to actually bottom, the front tire would very likely drag the leading face of the radiator, too…furthermore, why bother with a “protective” hoop around the headlights if the headlights stick out in front of the hoop and are left vulnerable to brush and strikes anyway? I can’t see the rear upper shock mount very well, but I shudder to imagine how ill-designed it is, or how bad the welds are, base don what I see elsewhere on the bike…
Real, functional “adventure” motorcycles are by nature functional and the style is the outcome of that priority. Function is the priority first, not fashion, and they are designed, proportioned and tuned in many specific ways to meet the demands of the real users, whether or not the remainder of the owners actually end up using them that way.
Slamer,
I’d like to hear what your ideal adventure bike is because, I’ve owned and ridden them all. None of them will touch this bike on the road. Yeah the superenduro wins offroad, but I’m not hitting 50′ triples either. I’m a porky 33 yo dad just having some fun. I don’t recall you winning the baja on your first attempt either.
The lines do cycle but I need to redo the guides as I was rushed before my trip. I’m sure if you read the build log you could appreciate the time constraints I had. I was, and continue to be, critical of the bike and constantly try and rework components to make it better. But to dismiss it out of hand and compare it functionally to some occ copper, especially without riding it (btw invitation always there) just smacks of a superiority complex that I just can’t help you with. Maybe break the pills in half?
I can afford to buy any bike I want. I choose to build this because I wanted too. I listened and learned to those more experienced than I on what to do and did it. The next one will be even more stupid and impractical, can’t wait for your comments on that one.
I think he is trying to achieve a certain feel and maintain a level of function. Namely he likes the feel of a sport bike style engine, and NONE of the adventure bikes have that. Everything he put on there was for a purpose rather than style. Oh-No! he can’t use all his power the 15% of the time he is on the dirt! He can only enjoy that smooth power delivery the other 85% of his riding. What a waste….
As to build quality, he is clearly obsessive and learning. He will definitely clean up every thing that is iffy. I saw some ugly welds, but nothing that would fall off. He already mentioned that he was going to redo the tripples and add a skidplate. That should cover him for the rare times when he might bottom out the front.
You can tell it works, because he is using it. Anything that doesn’t work will get broken and replaced. I think he has earned credibility because he cared enough to build it and he is riding it how he wants to use it. How many BMW GS owners ever see dirt?
Well let me say thanks for posting up my bike. It was my first bike project, and I learned quite a bit during the build.
In regards to hilslamers comments, many are valid points. Some are off the mark, maybe more bran in your diet?
I built the bike just because. It’s not an offroad bike, lets be clear.more of a v-strom type machine. I took the bags off and installed tkc s specifically
for that ride. Most of the time it has bags and lives on the street. Hilslamer, I know you are familiar with the ktm 950, this bike absolutely murders that bike in 90% of the situations *I* ride the bike in. I had an 04 go. The roll on power is simply stunning, top end is frightening.
Off road the 950 wins due to gearing, traction, and torque. But only at low speeds. After 40, see ya. The suspension revalve transforms the wp stuff. Javier did a great job.
You are right about the seat angle, that was a miscalculation and I regret it.
Let me be clear again, I’m not racing in the baja 1000 or dakar, I wanted a stupid fast adventure bike that could handle light offroading with ease, rail through twisties with ease, and beat up on sport bikes while hauling camping gear. Oh and stone ax reliable motor with about the easiest maintenance I have ever done. My 950 was ridiculous in terms of oil changes, valve adjustments etc. the day I finished it, I rode 2000 miles round trip to the adv eastern rendezvous and it has performed flawlessly in the time since then.
With regards to the shoddy fabrication, yes there were some mistakes made. I built it in a one car garage with modest tools as a first time endeavor. This winter I plan on redoing a few things and finishing the bike as well as powdetcoating the frame etc. I don’t pretend to be a master builder, just a guy that enjoys to play around. For a first effort I think it was a great success. Those that have ridden it all universally get off and remark something similar to “that’s ridiculous…”
Bring your adventure bike and your pink slip over and we’ ll line em up…
Plenty of bran in my diet, believe me.
It seems the truth comes out, once the flaws are called out: “Most of the time it has bags and lives on the street….this bike absolutely murders that bike in 90% of the situations *I* ride the bike in.” Seems like showing it around the web, unfinished(where is the rear brake lever/master cylinder in the muddy pictures?), coated in mud and shod with tires you ran on it once is a little bit of false advertising to me, if that’s really the case.
I guess if you wanted to beat an LC8-based adventure bike on the street, you’ve done it. Or did Yamaha already do it for you? Anyone could have gone out and bought an FZ1, shod it in Twinduro rubber, drop the final drive gearing 10%, and probably still done the same with a lot less hassle, and still be able to get it most of the places you would be willing to take your creation in an offroad sense. Something along the lines of this:
At the same time, an Adventure with SuperDuke cams, correct injection mapping, 2-into-1 exhaust(looking at about ~125-130 hp that way), 19/17″ wheels and ~16/45 gearing would probably satisfy most of your “90% street” needs and still be a whole lot more capable(by, oh, say, orders of magnitude…) as an adventure bike(offroad). As far as maintenance intervals go, if you run an FZ1 as hard as you purport to, valve adjustment intervals are a lot more likely to be less than the ~26k miles Yamaha suggests. That number is only double what KTM suggests for the LC8 engines, and most know that even then that is incredibly conservative – they will easily go double that How is an oilchange going to be any different than a 950 or V-Strom when you get an adequate skidplate on your creation? I suppose if you really do ride your creation 90% on the street, then the pod-style airfilters aren’t too much trouble…but used in reality, or for any sort of mileage in places you’d take an Adventure or SuperEnduro, you’d have to wash/change those quite often. When you need a new set of sprockets, do you have to call SprocketSpecialists back every time and explain your application and situation? How much do they charge you for a custom sprocket each time? I bet they wear out fast, too, even with 90% of your ride-time on the street – 140hp and 130+mph tend to do that to final drive components.
As an afterthought, it seems like it might have been a lot easier, if you really insisted on FZ1 power and close-ratio gearing and “reliability”(as if the LC8’s lack that?), that it would have been a lot less work to graft the FZ1 engine into and Adventure or SuperEnduro chassis.
I didn’t see a defense of your headlight ring/protection – but if you spend 90% of your time on the street as you say, and it doesn’t do much anyway as I pointed out before, it’s really only an artful additional accessory to mimic the “look” or “style” of the real, functional thing.
I’ll race for pinks if I get to choose any 50% the route(agree to omit singletrack, since you stated that it was not a “singletracker” – I’d be game for some, though)…but even then, it seems like neither of us would want the prize either. To each his own, I suppose.
I think we can agree to disagree.
I never tried to post the pics that this bike is the ultimate off roader. I just ran into some mud last weekend and thought it was funny. I guess that humor was lost. I’m damn proud of the bike for my first attempt despite your criticisms, which I take sincerely. I’m sure you are a better rider, richer, more handsome, your kids are smarter etc.
If you read my build without prejudice you’d see that I constantly was trying to just have fun and enjoy the bike and build. I don’t puff my chest out as the greatest builder or rider. Like I said 33 yo fat dude.
The brake pedal broke off when I smacked into a tree so I put it in my pocket for the rest of the ride. Sprocket specialists charged about $90 if I recall. It has about 7 k miles on it and wearing fine.
Again, since reading comprehension seems hard, I built the bike for 90/10 riding. It has warts, and I’m completely honest about admitting them. Read the blog if you can stoop that low. I’m sure your time is limited dating cameron diaz and flying your kids to astronaut school in your helicopter, but comments always welcome.
Oh and the lights. My buddy owns a metal business and he gave me some 1″ aluminum. My bending die just so happened to be the perfect radius. I bent it upand presto. It works great an d is plenty beefy when in need of my buddies to help me pull my over powered, over suspended, under built, obviously shoddily crafted piece of crap bike unworthy of even a passing compliment poseur bike from the mud. Which I’m sure never happens to you having a helicopter and all.
There really isn’t anything more fun than riding a big, powerful 4-cylinder on the dirt is there?
Wow again Hilslamer!! Any chance of seeing one of your builds that you have crafted by hand? BTW, you are probably spot on in some of your observations but you have totally missed the point. He just built it for fun. Also, I never met the builder but I will defend anybody who is enjoying the world of motorcycles. I like the world of “Why?” when it is answered with “Why not?”.
Nice one, Sailah! And have fun out there!
Every day my friend, every day.
Slamer,
Stuff that ego into a helmet and bring your Superduke’d 950 over to Pittsburgh and we’ll see what’s what. You did build it right? Having owned a properly jetted 950 for years, it ain’t even in the same league. Anyone with a CC can go out and buy a SE and farkle it up. Hell, I can buy Ned’s Dakar bike, does that make me more baddass? Let’s see your bike…
Since you won’t touch my piece of junk, I’ll have to treat you to a steak dinner with a side of raisin bran. You can regale me with stories about why you didn’t win the Baja 1000 on your SE, because having twice the cylinders and twice the HP of the JCR teams means you were obviously at a disadvantage over those pussy 450s.
Kudos to you for racing in it, too bad you’re such a DB for me to care. Guess I’ll have to take my Team Double Barrel racing T shirt and use it to wipe the mud off my pipe.
I’m not rich. I don’t own and have never flown in a helicopter. I don’t choose to have any kids yet, because then I could never do what I do with my spare time on motorcycles in good conscience. As to Cameron Diaz, well, maybe if I DID have a helicopter I could fly over to her place to get refused for a date…LOL
I don’t have a superiority complex, I have a penchant for practicality. And with a finite amount of money and time, “building” a bike from numerous pieces of other ones is pretty low on my priority list when there are already a huge number of options out there that meet all of my needs quite nicely – so building one with some sort of parameter that very few people want or need(to blow away sportbikes on the way to an adventure motorcycling meet?) doesn’t seem very practical to me. But as I said in the end of my comments, to each his own.
Well I guess I won’t be seeing that cammed 950 rolling through the Burgh any time soon.
You still haven’t named the bike, with the “huge” number of available bikes out there. Like I said, I’ve owned most of them. A GS? 950? Tiger? Strom? Strada?
Yeah, crazy as it seems, having a 90/10 bike that will strafe twisties and rip down fire roads on the way to meet up with fellow riders at a rally can actually be a load of fun.
To each his own? You bet.
Nice job Sailah! And I don’t get what what’s under hilslamer’s hide or where he gets off slamming your work. Is he an authority on creativity?
Use your (re)search skills to find my bike(s) – they appear to be pretty good.
There’s a reason that there isn’t anyone mass-producing a bike like yours, and that’s because the sum of it’s parts(regardless of source) and configuration doesn’t have a practical scope or a useful purpose beyond the elementary novelty you’ve proven it to have here. If there were any demand for anything like that at all, I have no doubt that it would be met at least in small numbers by someone like you building small runs of them – you did say you could afford any bike you wanted, right?…but alas, yours is and probably only ever will be the only thing of it’s kind…it’s like building a really, really fast street-legal dragster, but sans all of the things that make it fit into a class in competition(even “unlimited”), and then having no place to race it and no one interested in buying it. It is cool to me that you are willing to get out and use it, don’t get me wrong there!
I suppose I should explain a little bit about the “huge” number of bikes I claimed were already available: there aren’t any that will do what you purport to do on the pavement. I don’t know anyone else that wants to do that, AND have the ability to go down a fireroad at any similar velocities. Congratulations, you’ve built exactly what you want, and no on else would ever think to create because they all know better than to use something like that to a fraction of it;s potential offroad.
The closest think I know of is a TerraMostro, http://www.terramostro.com/index.cfm , and even then, they would only be about as fast on the street as an Adventure(waaay below your “needs”) and at the same time probably even inferior to your ride offroad. And at a $16.5k ding to the bank account, they appear to still be in business but you don’t see Ducati poaching the concept or rallies of TerraMostro’s with “other brands welcome, too,” either.
You likely only know part of the story behind the Baja effort of TDBR…I was one of four(three that actually raced) riders on TDBR, and if you “drop prejudices,” as a team we did pretty well for what we had to work with. We finished to beat over 50% of all entrants that year, just by finishing(huge attrition rate that year for both 2-wheel and 4-wheel vehicles – very, very rough course and difficult logistics for support). We were in the top third of all finishers. I delivered the bike hours ahead of schedule on my first leg, and on my second leg the next morning my lead on the chase vehicle actually cost us an hour and a half because I picked up a nail in a place where I was so far ahead of the chase crew they had taken a bypass route around a planned rendesvoux. That left them backtracking a long way, literally worst-case-scenario at that point. But, that’s racing, and I don’t make those as excuses other than to say that even if none of the other things below hadn’t happened, we still never aspired to “win” from a speed or ranking standpoint. To my knowledge, no one else has ever finished on an SE before or since. Although, real heavyweight multi-cylinder credit goes to Jimmy Lewis and his team for doing amazing things with the HP2’s they raced prior to us.
But the Baja Mil on that bike was never on our horizon when the team began. We originally procured a 950 because it would have been a big advantage with our team aboard at the BITD Vegas to Reno, but when Ned’s father took ill and passed just before the race, we had a publicity promise to keep to sponsors and the Baja Mil was the only next feasible date we could all meet. So we raced in it, but we all knew full well that winning against the field of paid professionals at that race on that bike was not even within the scope of the teams finances or abilities.
I learned a lot about really high speed on a motorcycle ON DIRT when I raced my 990 Adventure in the Prescott Forest Rally in 2009, in the RallyMoto class. While this was not a national level rally, some of the ~400-500hp, 4wd cars that showed up were SCCA pro level cars with drivers that were well ranked in them, and they are by no means slow. All of the specials were on smoothly graded fireroads, the kind I think that you might enjoy on your creation. The biggest problem for all of us, 1wd, 4wd, 2wd: traction. As it finished, my 990 and I beat all of the motorcycles(composed of a good variety of other singles, and LC8 twins – although no FZ-1 powered beasts) and was 2nd overall in the entire event. This was on my 2008 990 Adventure, stock – engine-wise – other than a 2-into-1 exhaust and the Akropovic map – all of maybe 100hp, probably ~85hp at the 3500-5000ft elevation the stages were at.
The unquestionable limit was traction, both in a straight line against wind and the gravel drag of the front wheel – if I had had a fresh rear tire at the beginning of every stage, I think I probably could have gone 2-4% faster in the specials, but that is totally unrealistic in that atmosphere without multiple chase crews and the like. As it was geared and set up, I have seen ~125mph on the GPS near sealevel on pavement, with the same gearing and knobbies on, but max speed on the gravel was ~112 due to tire slip on the straightest, flattest sections, even downhill a bit an tucked and WFO. Additionally, I spent a lot of time right at the steering lock drifting turn after turn – even with Emig tripleclamps(2mm more offset adds several degrees more steering lock) – to go that fast and I can’t imagine trying to flattrack turns with 140+hp on tap and half the steering lock travel as your bike has. I can imagine several of the cattleguard jumps and rougher sections of road smashing the exhaust flat and racking myself on the tank of your bike numerous times over those same roads, at the same speeds – even though I stand almost all the time to ride
This experience, among many others that are otherwise undocumented by timeclocks, is why I say that even for smooth gravel/graded fireroads, your bike simply does not seem practical to me at all – even with the suspension changes, custom panniers, etc. I mean, for straight-line bragging rights, and highly illegal speed on paved roads, maybe it suits you but for almost all of the other riding to be done in the world, Adventure, street, dirt, Baja, Dakar, trans-continental, whatever…and for anywhere on the pavement, you could go just as fast for a whole lot less effort by just buying and FZ1 and leaving it bone stock.
True to your word, though, you never mention “practicality” in the build…it’s too bad that Pike’s Peak is paved all the way to the top now, because it would have been really interesting to see you compete in whatever class they would allow it in to show how well it works. That’s the only place I can see something like your beast finding a home outside of yours, but now even that would be simply better suited to a stock FZ1.
I appreciate the effort and time you spent trying to refute what I’m not disputing. YOUR opinion of what YOU want does not jive with my opinion of what’s best for ME. Agreed? But trying to tell me from across the country, based on your limited knowledge of what you THINK i have, having never ridden it, is absurd. Come on over and ride it for the day, then tell me its a piece of crap, but don’t try peddling the idea that just because you have a preformulated opinion of what’s best that I’ll agree.
“I don’t know anyone else that wants to do that, AND have the ability to go down a fireroad at any similar velocities.” You need to get out more, really?
It’s not a novel concept for wanting a fast bike that can multitask, you just defined the entire adv market. Based on the response I have gotten from those that ACTUALLY rode it at the eastern rendezvous and locally all say it’s impressive. Their words not mine. I’ve ridden 7k miles since finishing it and I’m not easy on bikes.
Every ride it gets redlined. Repeatedly. The valves are the same as when I checked them when I pulled the motor originally. If I smoke the motor, I can pick up another with 10k on the clock for $500, there’s two 950 motors for $2k in the flea market. There’s more than one rider of the FZ boards with 150k on a stock motor, one girl getting ready to hit 200k. The oil takes 5 minutes to change with a sump drain and spin on filter. The 950 was an hour and that was skipping the tank filter screen. The 950 was a better off roader, I don’t dispute that. My bike is a better road bike, and that comes from someone who loved the 950. Again, compromises, biased to what I want.
I RIDE MOSTLY STREET WITH THIS BIKE. I’m not pretending that I’m whipping over cattle guards or running 120 in the dirt. I’m familiar with your efforts in the B1k, which is why I mentioned it. I was also in the pits for BMW the first year they ran the HP2 and again the next year when we pitted for DA and camerons crew. I wouldn’t make it 20 miles in that event.
You keep on the train of thought that this bike is pointless because no one wants to ride fast on the street and also go offroad. Are you kidding me? That’s the whole adv bike segment. The Multistrada, Tiger, Stroms, Versys, GS are a huge segment (relatively) and that’s exactly where this bikes slots in. It might be more street biased than the 950, but that’s exactly why I built it. I’ve ridden every one of those bikes and to a T they all have faults. Degrees of separation is what defines that market. The strom, tiger, GS are way too soft and heavy. fine for miles, but just plain boring. The Multi is about as close to my bike as I can imagine, but still different. My bike was built for a focused purpose, to be able to rip up the streets and head off road if I want. I had the forks and shock valved for that, and run a scotts damper road version. As I have said repeatedly, that’s what I want it for. I understand that might not be what you enjoy riding, so this bike isn’t for you I got it. Just because I chose KTM 950 suspension all the way around, doesn’t mean I wanted to try and copy that bike. I did is specifically because the WP48 is the only viable suspension available that can be tuned and sprung for a bike this heavy. Along with the wheels being available in the right sizes, it just made sense to run everything 950. And since the weight is so close, it was much easier to baseline to get the rake set, swingarm angles etc.
I want a motor that just screams when I am going for a long day of twisties. I also want to be able to shoot off on a back road and explore, maybe cross a stream, bang around dirt roads. The day that pic was taken (last week) was pretty much the day I found my limits with the bike and myself. The week previous, I was banging around trails with a bunch of new husabergs, 530s, DRZs, it was exhausting. I am pushing the boundaries of what I ever intended the bike to be.
The idea that there’s no market for a bike because the demand isn’t there is silly and you know it. The makers of bikes build what they can sell, period. The TerraMostro is a cool idea, but the money is absurd. I paid $1500 for the FZ1. The suspension started adding up quickly, and before I knew it I was around 6-7k as you see it. Of course you can buy a 950 used for that, but having owned one, this bike is more enjoyable to me. Simply because of the motor. It’s much more focused, but don’t think for a minute it isn’t versatile. I’ve done single track, fast fire roads, 500 mile days, twisties in WV where you think your head is getting beat in from so many corners, camping trips and just plain beer nights with buddies. It’s done it all, and done it well. It just ceases to be enjoyable when you push it on tight trails as throttle control becomes an issue. Those that have ridden with me will tell you, it’s surprising how well is does.
I bought a wrecked FZ1 so I didn’t want to throw the same forks back on it, the body work was trashed and one thing morphed into another. I love the suspension of the 950, the motor from the FZ1 is addictive, what’s not to like?
Apparently a lot I guess.
If you thought that bike was silly, I can’t wait to see what you think of my CBR600. Running 48’s with an EXC swingarm. I’m at 280 lbs with probably about 40-50 lbs not accounted for. Underseat aluminum tank, no body work, 105HP. 350 lbs. Oh, and full sumo setup too.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729066
WOW! You guys have been busy today. Sorry I missed out on the conversation. I was hella busy today so I lost track of the comments here. Sailah sorry about your last comment . It got caught in the filter (probably from the link). As long as it’s civil there’s no censorship here.
I’ve skimmed the thread and at first blush it seems that Hillslammer is building one hell of a strawman argument here. You’re arguing against a bike concept that isn’t trying to please anyone other than it’s owner. This is clearly a very deliberately built machine and I think it’s fantastic. I’d ride it in a second, probably stop to piss myself, and then get right back on. I’m trying to visualize blasting down a gravel road with that kind of power coupled to somewhat manageable traction. It must be thrilling beyond words and certainly beyond almost any mass produced motorcycle out there.
You seem perplexed because it’s quite literally almost impossible to categorize and that seems to be important to you. No worries there. Live and let live. But god help us all when riders simply allow manufacturers to tell us what is a proper bike to ride in a particular circumstance. If we truly surrendered to that impulse we’d be without an awful lot of biking segments. Heck.. Goldwings would still big naked standards, cafe racers would have never happened, there likely wouldn’t have been choppers or cruisers or street trackers. Hell supermoto was “invented” when someone had a crazy idea to put 17″ slicks on a CR500 to see what would happen. Throughout time, the manufacturers have responded to the market almost as much as the other way around. I for one look forward a future filled with liter bike inline four 200 hp backroad blasters!! Heck put some ice spikes on that thing and head out to the lake this winter! there are no rules!
2 cents.. peace.
Open door policy with any of my bikes. Always welcome to ride it for yourself.
I watched the R1 video, mine is def not that angry. It can be if you want it to, but I think that’s more for showing off the pipe and spinning tires.
Funny you mention CR500 supermoto, I was building a YZ450 with a CR500 motor in it and then got sidetracked on this project. Haven’t actually finished the FZ1 as has been noted, but am in the build stages of another. CBR600 with sumo and dirt setup. Will be much different than the FZ1 in that I’m trying to minimize weight and get the bike under 350# which is almost crazy. I weighed it as you see it in the pic and was around 280ish with dirt wheels. Stock CBR600 is 390. I lost the steel swingarm, Li Ion battery, no bodywork, no steel tank, one rotor & caliper etc.
I’m still waiting on the dirt wheels to get here, but should be plenty interesting on slicks. I’ve never ridden a supermoto, but plan to take it to BeaveRun track to have some fun. Course living next to WV is like having 1000’s of supermoto tracks too.
[IMG]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d171/mainesailah/2011-11-16202434.jpg[/IMG]
I’m a ways off from finishing it, but learned a lot of lessons from the first bike build. That lower/outer engine cradle is getting redone and will be removeable…
Wow! (EDIT: Ad hominem remark removed by the site host) He is the exact kind of anal retentive narrow minded pinhead that once told the Wright brothers their idea would never work. (EDIT:political comment removed by the host) In fact I doubt if this asshole even has a bike. Being that he is such the expert. Anyway who gives a shit about practicality. This is a very cool build. I know plenty of very well known bike builders that would all love to take this thing for a spin just for fucks sake and the shit eating grin. Keep up the bad ass work. And don’t forget to up your medical insurance:-b And for (Edit: hillslamer). You should take some of the time you are dedicating to being so anal in your criticisms of someone else’s hard work. And go out and ride. Maybe you will find a reason to smile ( Edit:Deleted)
@Testdriver, I’m going to let that last one go but juuust barely and with some edits done by me. The basic point is still very clear. Let’s keep it civil here please. There’s PLENTY of room here for everyone’s opinions without getting personal and bringing up politics. This is positively NOT the place for that. If my edits offend you I will gladly remove your comment for you upon request. I’m VERY lenient to all points of view but this is not a democracy. I will not tolerate personal flaming, name calling and political attacks. Other than that it’s wide open and have at it.
Sorry and thanks.
There appears to be a strange upload issue with this page, because I see different comments and in in different order when I view it from the links the subscription send out, and from different computers and/or my Android phone. So, I’m not sure at this point what I have and haven’t missed because I was out of service/riding most of the weekend…
I’m not frowning on creativity here at all. Looking over what I *think* is all of the replies and comments, I should have saved us all a bunch of time and started from the top(the concept), instead of the bottom(most of the other details and considerations I have listed already). I henpecked the details and all it did is create a rash of percieved personal attacks, when that was never my intention. I take responsibility for that mistake in whole.
What I am trying to ask/say, is this: Did you ever take a “design of experiments” class? Or similar? You know, the one where you create a list of all possible combinations of a formula, or ways of meeting specific design criteria, and rule out the ones that clearly either can’t be combined, or defy logic to the extent that they aren’t worth investing the time or energy in? This project seemed to me, both at first glance and upon further investigation, to be a total outlier.
While it’s hard to be an “expert” on anything anymore because everything is so diverse, I’ve had a passion for motorcycling for most of my life and have made a personal study of every bit of literature, video, reading or other means related to motorcycling for the duration. And I’m still no expert…but I can say, that there are a lot of reasons this recipe has either never been tried before or rather, has never been documented before. Either it was and didn’t work, or everyone else had the sense to see that outliers aren’t worth proving wrong.
But, to each his own…only you knew the true design criteria when you started, and that makes it a lot easier to defend later on.
Here are your ice-spiked tires, Steve D:
Hillslammer I went and looked around and I don’t see any posts relating to this thread that have been snagged or held up by any filters. It appears to all be in chronological order when I vew it here. Not sure what may have gone on with your platform. Please let me know it it continues. Thanks.
Steve D – it has to do with the links that the site sends me for updates, through my gmail account. I don’t think it’s a filter problem at all, it’s a refresh thing with the link the site sends to me, and the subsequent posts in the mean time. For instance, I used the link for the email it sent me when you replied “you guys have been busy!!!….” and could not see Sailah’s post above that – it only came when I reloaded the page by accident. As a result, some of my retorts did not take into account his later comments or expansions on a topic. It doesn’t really matter now, anyway, I will just watch for it in the future with threads/strings of comments like this. I’d have pissed him off and insulted him either way or in person for that matter, anyway…
allready done in the ’80 by Jean Claude OLIVIER, french importator of Yamaha who even race it at the Paris-Dakar
small wheels: really interesting: http://www.rallye-tenere.net/BgFZT750-900.html
That looks like they started with mostly XT600 components(entire chassis, then modified to “fit” the FZ motor/trans. Definitely offroad geometry and full range of steering lock from the single-backbone frame.
I did the same back in ’92 using a 5-valve Fazer as a starting point. That year I ran it at the Mini-Pine Enduro and earned an 8th place trophy. It was featured in the May 2011 Cycle Canada magazine.
By the way, I bought my crashed Fazer for CAD300.00 and paid another 300.00 for the stainless exhaust out back (just like you did). Everything else was stuff I had lying around my garage and adapted. It was a revelation how well it all worked and it would do the craziest wheelies at almost any speed. It was best on fast trails and fire-roads but it could and did handle single track and even shallow mud quite well.
Hey Manny don’t leave us hanging! You must have some old pictures of it around somewhere? I’d love to get it and get it posted on here. Any chance you can get some old shots scanned?
Thanks!
I’ve got lots of pictures but I don’t know how to upload them here.
Steve, I told Manny to get in on this.Here’s hoping he gets to it !ps. His bike was not pampered and lived a hard life up until the time it died on the T-Can in front of Fairview shopping center and was left to die roadside……sigh, you just gotta know Manny.
Mike that cracks me up. I spent a good part of my youth at the Fairview mall. In it and on the trails behind it. Back when it was half the size it is today and with only a single floor.